Socratic Seminar –
How can a Socratic Seminar be used to facilitate an inclusive setting? How would doing a Socratic Seminar differentiate learning? How could it help kids of varying special needs? We talked about it in class today...how well were you listening? Can you apply what you heard? Talk about at least 3 different types of special needs students who could benefit from a Socratic, and discuss the "how and why" of those benefits. This is deeper application, so don't just skim the surface here.
Grade: 20 pts. for the blog; 3 pts. per response and respond to 4 classmates. Don't just agree...have a discussion here. For 3 pts., I want to see you truly thinking critically about this.
Blog by Tuesday, April 28th and respond to 4 classmates by Friday, May 1st
I think a Socratic is a great way to differentiate learning, based off of our discussion in class today. It helps the shy students speak up. A Socratic forces every single student to talk, so the shy student can not sit back and let others do all the talking. It is good for all types of learners. The auditory learners are able to listen to the conversation and then give logical input. The visual learners have their notes to lead the discussion. The active learners have a change of scenery for learning. I think a Socratic is good for ADD and ADHD students also. It works better with them as the co-piolet where they are constantly grading and providing questions for the person in the Socratic.
ReplyDeleteI agree that a Socratic Seminar can help many different kinds of learners. It can help engage shy students, but I think how the teacher organizes the seminar is very important. Shyer students may have a hard time speaking up, and more outgoing students can dominate the discussion. If the teacher organizes small groups and is clear about how students are graded, then I think it can be a good accommodation. I also think that this can help ADD students because it is easier to focus when you are facing everyone instead of just being at a regular desk.
DeleteKatie, in addition to grouping students into small groups (2-3 students), another way to encourage students to express their ideas is for more confident students to directly ask their shyer classmates to speak up. The confident students may not be aware of the important role that they can play in this respect, but before the discussion begins, the teacher can suggest for students to encourage each other to speak, especially less talkative students.
DeleteDylan, although Socratics accommodate ADHD students in that they provide a change of scenery and that they allow students to do something active - grade their partners, a potential issue is that overly-active students might talk too often or disrupt their classmates. Perhaps this could be addressed through motivation by the teacher, such as saying that if such behavior occurs, the student(s) responsible will not be able to participate in similar activities in the future.
DeleteJim, you do have to remember that in a Socratic, every student holds each other accountable. If one of their fellow peers is being a disruption or getting off topic, most of the students will find a way to bring them back into the discussion. At the same time, they will be graded based on how much they talked and how they acted, and if they do perform poorly, it will show in their grade. The teacher can address things like behaviors before and after, but the whole Socratic should be controlled by the students only.
DeleteSocratic Seminars are good for shy students, especially because other students can score extra points by bringing others into the discussion, so this ensures that everyone participates. Also, I think this activity will benefit ADD students when they are part of the discussion as well, because their peers make sure that everyone is focused and stays on topic during the conversations.
DeleteYour points on how a Socratic differentiates learning were great! They were specific and logical. The way you worded it it gives every learning style a sort of "role" to play in the discussion. The visual learners are probably going to get the most out of the readings so as you say they "lead" the discussion with their prepared questions/notes. The auditory learners are going to listen to the conversation and really keep it rolling. I hadn't thought of it that way before.
Deletei think that is good for everyone to get outside of the traditional learning, it helps all kinds of learners just not the active learners. Its a good, fun change of pace from what is done on a normal day to day basis
DeleteI think that it is super helpful for students with ADD or ADHD because the teacher isn't there to tell them that they have to raise they're hand or say I'm gonna have to cut you off. It let's their minds run free and it produces great results.
DeleteDylan I also thought that ADD/ADHD students would benefit from this Socratic with the co-piloting, but do you think without the co-piloting they would have struggled with the Socratic?
DeleteSocratic Seminars can help accommodate for a variety of learners. This can be very helpful to ADD students because they are circled up with other students, can see their faces, and are more likely to be engaged. This can also help students with physical disabilities, such as a wheelchair, because everyone is sitting and it is based on conversation alone. I think this could really help auditory learners because everything is being spoken aloud. This can engage shy students, but it is also difficult for those students who might not want to interrupt other or may be anxious about speaking up.
ReplyDeleteShy students would gain a lot from taking part in a Socratic Seminar. My only concern is would the Socratics be broken up into smaller groups or would there be one big one involving all of the students? If the Socratics are smaller, the shy students would do much better at participation. In larger groups, they may feel uncomfortable when it comes to discussing questions they have or start topics in front of the whole class.
DeleteAlong with benefiting auditory learners, Socratic Seminars can also benefit visual learners because they will see the articles, research, and notes. Socratic Seminars are also good for gifted students because it encourages them to be analytical about different points of view on a topic and challenge themselves on their research and discussion.
DeleteI am a fan of the Socratic because it does bring the ADD learners close to their peers and forces them to focus because the conversation is something they care about/have an opinion about and it moves quickly as students speak up. I think ADD learners might struggle being outside of the circle, as co-pilots they will probably be fine but score keeping they may get distracted or disinterested because they know they really don't have any input and they're stuck outside no matter what.
DeleteI never thought of the difficulties some of the different types of learners may have while trying to grade their peers. This is just another reason why the teacher should also be following along with the discussion and grading as well. This will ensure that no points are missed and everyone is sure to be graded fairly.
Deletei think it would be good to have some type of system to allow people to talk without being interrupted because when we did it there were a couple times when people started talking at the same time. so if its just having them raise their hands to talk or just going around in order in the circle would be a good way to do that but it depends on the age group also
DeleteI completely agree about students who are anxious. For a lot of people its hard to have all eyes on you for a while, add that to the stress of trying to find a place to jump in and you have an anxiety cocktail.
Deletei agree that this will really help auditory learners because they will be able to listen to questions and answer them in full because they will be able to listen and reason effectivley
DeleteIt's definitely difficult for students that don't know when to jump in or don't want to feel like they're interrupting the discussion. I remember feeling like that when my English teacher did the first one in my high school class. Dominant personalities can definitely take over the conversation, but I think that's where the point system helps out.
DeleteA Socratic seminar can be used to facilitate an inclusive setting because, if conducted properly, it allows all students to express their ideas without receiving negative judgment (i.e. non-constructive feedback), and it allows all students to listen to their classmate’s ideas, since the teacher, in theory, at least, does not speak during the process.
ReplyDeleteFor these reasons – the facts that students are encouraged to be respectful and are often penalized for speaking too frequently and that the teacher does not speak – the Socratic is a major accommodation for shy/anxious students, as they have a chance to speak up, and one of the biggest causes of shyness/anxiety is fear of criticism; since only constructive criticism is supported during Socratics and harsh criticism is discouraged, a great deal of shyer students anxiety may be removed during a Socratic.
Socratic seminars also accommodate auditory learners, individuals who learn best through hearing information, as Socratics are centered on verbal discussion. It is true that most lectures are given verbally, but Socratics may be more useful than lecture because they are nice changes of pace from hearing one voice in the same room for weeks in a row. This brings up the point of differentiation; Socratics give students another way of learning material that could be presented through lecture. The main difference between the two methods is that in a Socratic, students research topics that would be lectured about and instead of taking an exam, they are assessed by their discussion during the actual Socratic.
Furthermore, lecture may cater to auditory learners, but certainly not all (or even most) students learn best through hearing, and Socratics accommodate the needs of students of learning styles. For example, students have access to their notes and research, which is a huge accommodation for visual learners, who need these materials to remember the information. Most visual learners (and most students in general) take notes during lecture to visualize information, but rarely do students get to use their notes during the test (the assessment). During the Socratic’s assessment, the Socratic itself, students are allowed to use any materials they want.
I really do think that socractics are a good way for students to hear other peoples' ideas. Having a discussion is a good way to help widen students' perspectives and become more aware of people who might think differently than them. Even if someone does not agree with others, it is always important to hear and respect their viewpoints. This is a skill that is so important for students to learn, and I agree that it is a great place for that since the teacher has such a small role in the process.
DeleteYour point about the criticism anxiety being removed during Socratics was strong. Socratics are very inclusive because all opinions are encouraged to be voiced. However, I do think that the stronger personality students can dominate the conversation, maybe not with number of comments but just tone and content. If a shy student is contradicted by a strongly opinionated outgoing student they may not have a comeback. In our classrooms teaching how to respond in respectful ways will be beneficial and choosing topics that students care deeply enough about will make those shy kids still want to support their opinions.
DeleteIt seems that most of us agree the socratic was a good idea for teaching styles as switching things up, but would socratic seminars be beneficial as a regular teaching style? My fear is that some material would not be discussed that should have been or that the teacher would come to be viewed as useless here. We had three weeks in a row in my English class of socratics, some were good and some were not so good. When it came time to take a test, though, I did not know what to study or what the key points were because the students had brought them u and the importance or emphasis of each issue was not addressed.
DeleteGoing off Alex's comment - I don't think Socratics would be as beneficial if they were the only method used in a class. It would almost lose what was so great about it. I think having one occasionally, even one each week, would still keep it as something interesting to get prepared for and look forward to. But I would definitely keep it as a means of discussion after covering all of the material for a section, so that students still knew what they were expected to know and study for, like you said.
Delete1. I think that a Socratic Seminar can help facilitating in an inclusive setting, because it is a great tool for encouraging students to voice their opinion without the teacher forcing them. This is done in a couple different ways. First, the topic of the Socratic should be one that the students are passionate towards, so they should want to voice their opinion on this subject because they care about it. Second, students receive points for getting other students involved, so this will encourage students to engage with other students who might be a little shy. This will hopefully help the students who are shy to be able to voice their opinion. Third, and my last point, is that in a Socratic students are free to make comments when they want to. Students are not forced to talk about a part of the topic that does not interest them or is uncomfortable for them. They can choose to wait and speak whenever they wish.
ReplyDelete2. Doing a Socratic can be differentiated learning because students are able to speak whenever they want to. So students can provide feedback on a part of the topic they feel more comfortable with, or whenever they warm-up to the conversation and are not afraid to share with the group. This also allows for students to retain the information at their own pace.
3. One of the different types of learners that this could benefit shy students. This could benefit shy students because they would be allowed to speak whenever they wanted and wouldn't be forced to speak. Also the other students in the group could ask a question to a student who was shy and had not made many comments on the topic yet. This would be a way in which shy kids would be encourage by their peers which might be better than if they were encouraged by the teacher. Another type of special need that a Socratic could accommodate for is ADD. The Socratic could accommodate for a student with ADD because it would allow the student to move around a little with switching of the inner and outer circle. The biggest way it would accommodate for an ADD student would be that the topic of the Socratic would have multiple points that the students would change from, so it wouldn't be the same point being talked about for the full twenty minutes. This slight bit of change could help a student with ADD stay focused for the full twenty minutes, because there would be multiple parts that would be discussed within the topic. The other type of learning disability that the Socratic could help which we covered in class, was students who were gifted. The Socratic could accommodate for gifted students because this would encourage them to go deeper into their thinking and challenge themselves. A lot of times gifted students get bored in a class because they don't feel like that they are challenged. This would challenge students who were gifted to put forth their best effort and then share with the group. All in all I think that a Socratic is a great tool to use in the classroom. The most important thing is to have a topic that the students are interested in.
I certainly agree that Socratics are good for gifted students because they allow for them to voice their own opinions, something they think is valuable, rather than having to listen to what the teacher deems important. Once the gifted students are motivated, they are more likely to encourage their classmates to voice their ideas, thus facilitating a class-wide discussion.
DeleteI do think that a socratic is a way to have a more inclusive classroom. I think it is important, though, for the teacher to structure it so that it is inclusive and not simply certain students dominating the discussion. When teachers are clear about how students will be graded, it helps them understand how much to talk and the kinds of comments that are constructive and respectful. I do think that this can accommodate for lots of special needs students.
DeleteIt was interesting how you brought up how Socractics are helpful to gifted students. I think there are benefits, but there is only one issue I see. If the gifted student is someone who believes they know all and they are always right, could they become over-powering and end up controlling the discussion? This could cause an issue with other students because they would be afraid to bring up their question or point of view with the fear of being put down or could be challenged by the gifted student. Teachers should be sure that all the students understand the rules and will be open to hearing other student's opinions.
DeleteBeth, while I can see that gifted students controlling the discussion could certainly be a problem, I think that as long as the teacher emphasizes in the directions the guidelines of scoring and that students can lose points if they talk too much during the Seminar, most students would realize if they were crossing the line and needed to hold back so they would get a good grade.
DeleteI like your point about how students get to choose when they participate in the discussion. I hadn't considered this before but now after participating in the Socratic today it makes sense. I never had to talk about the issues the elementary teachers might face with a year round school--that didn't pertain to me. But I did have a strong opinion about how it would influence secondary classrooms and athletes so I would talk when those subjects were being discussed.
DeleteI think that the only way that students would even be interested in something like a socratic would be if they got to choose like we did. If a teacher made me look something up and debate it I would not do my best if I was not interested in the topic or think it impacted me as a future teacher.
DeleteI really do think that the topic of a socratic seminar is one of the key components to having a great class discussion. As previously mentioned, the students are more like to participate at a higher level if they have an opinion on what they are talking about. If not, they will come in with a few articles and just spit out random information that they found and have no opinion on.
DeleteI like how you talked about students who warm up later on in the seminar. Not every one who is shy is on one end of the spectrum. The people who are in the middle always get left out and I think that a Socratic seminar is the best way to make them feel like they have a voice.
DeleteI think a Socratic seminar is a great method of making sure that everyone in the whole class has a chance to participate and voice their own opinion about something that they might feel strongly about. It can serve as an accommodation for students with ADHD, ADD, and students who are very shy. Shy people can be brought into the conversation by more outgoing people, which will help them feel more comfortable in the setting than if the were forced to give a speech or an equivalent of that. It helps kids pay attention because they are on a more level playing field with their classmates than they are with their instructor. It gives students a chance to talk, but keeps them inline with the topic of the seminar which is usually chosen by the students.
ReplyDeleteI agree that socratics can help involve everyone in the class. It does give students the chance to voice their opinions, but it is important to establish respect in the classroom first. With younger students, there could be room for conflict over controversial issues. I think it can be difficult for a teacher to select a topic that students are opinionated about, but not so strongly that there could be problems. It really depends on the maturity and age of the students. It can help shy students as well as ADD students since it is not a typical classroom setting.
DeleteIt is so important to allow students to express what their thoughts are on a specific topic. Depending on how old the students are, they will hold each other accountable by keeping their fellow peers on topic and providing questions to keep everyone involved. It is also, like you said, a fair playing ground since the students run and command the Socratic and guide where they want it to go. The teacher has no part in the Socratic, which is a completely different experience for the students, and often it is a good experience for them both.
DeleteYou are right that the Socratic Seminar is a good way to make sure everyone participates. It helps that students score extra points by bringing others into the conversation, which is especially good for shy students. Socratic Seminars are also best when they are over a topic that the students are interested in and have differing opinions about.
DeleteI think that socratics though good for shy people can still be over ran by out going people. There is only so much someone can do to keep someone else form talking. Though socratics do help that situation do you all really think that is the best thing for a shy person?
DeleteI don't really know if shy people see it this way Matt but it definitely is a great way to push shy students out of their comfort zone. It's not always fun being told that you have to participate in a discussion to get the points but it will help those students in the long run. The experience they gain from talking in front of the class will help them in the future when they have to do it again.
DeleteYou make a great point about how that outgoing students can bring in students who are shy. I agree with Matt that outgoing people can sometimes overpower the Socratic. I think that's why that you need to have a good mixture of each type of student within the group in order for the Socratic to be the most successful.
DeleteMatt, No I don't think that a Socratic is the best thing for a shy person but I do think its a good step to take to get that shy student out of their "shell". Once they see that their voice is being heard and other students agree with them might show them its not a bad idea to speak out in class
DeleteAs has been mentioned by everyone, Socratic seminars are good for shy people, yes, since they provide them the chance to speak, but we seem to be ignoring the obvious: for that same reason they are also good for outgoing students.
ReplyDeleteSocratic seminars have been one of my favorite activities to do in class. This discussion activity is run completely by the students without any interaction from the teacher. The students present questions to their peers to talk about and discuss while the teacher watches their Socratic take place. It benefits all different types of students with different forms of learning abilities and disorders. One special needs that it helps is students with ADD. During lectures, these students have a tendency to get distracted if they are not interacting or doing some form of activity. In a Socratic, they are able to take part in discussions with their fellow peers, and if the ADD student would get off topic, they can easily be brought back into the topic with a question or being asked about an opinion. Another group that can benefit from it are students who struggle with reading. Yes, they would have to do reading to find information to back up their topic before starting the Socratic. The Socratic itself is done through talking and expression. A student with a reading disorder just needs some material with them just to support their beliefs, and the rest will come from them discussing what they found on their argument to the class. The third group is students who are more shy or have some form of Asperger's or Autism. These students would feel more pressure to talk in front of a whole class about an issue. If the Socratic is broken down into smaller groups, these students would feel more comfortable discussing what they support and including what information they have. If the co-pilot idea is initiated, they could provide more assistance to the more shy students by giving them topics or questions to ask their fellow students.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree, this was also one of my favorite activities that we have done so far this year. I was a little nervous about it at first because I did not know how exactly it was going to work. Now however, i am very glad we did it.
DeleteYou make a great point about how that the seminar could help struggling readers. I hadn't thought about how that this could be an accommodation for that. What do you do for the students who just don't read the material though? I think in ours you could definitely tell between the people who had read the articles and those who hadn't. I have a feeling that high school students, would be likely to not want to read for this, so do you think you should provide class time for them to read or find articles?
DeleteBeth and Luke, Doing the Socratic was one of the activities we did in this class that I will always remember. I also had a great time doing it along with researching main ideas to bring up in the discussion. Luke I was also nervous before it began but once I spoke out a few times made the whole 20mins fly by.
DeleteI also agree that the socratic was a great tool in our class. I did still notice some issues for the shy students, especially when the conversation was more heated. They were not as comfortable jumping in to get their point across as the more outspoken students. I have no trouble talking in front of others or getting into heated discussion, so I was not nervous. I have also done socratics a lot before this class, so I knew more of what to expect.
DeleteA Socratic Seminar can be used to facilitate an inclusive setting because it gets all different types of learners involved in the discussion and activity, whether through discussion, co-piloting, or scoring. Socratic Seminars can differentiate learning by benefiting auditory learners from hearing the discussion and visual learners by seeing their research and notes. The Socratic can be good for ADD students because they are able to discuss with their peers differing views of a topic and will always have a job during the seminar, whether it is discussing, co-piloting, or scoring. This is a better learning experience for them than lectures or notes, because they won't get as distracted as easily and can stay on topic through the questions of their peers.The seminar can also benefit shy students because they have an opportunity to speak out in class and discuss their opinions. It is especially helpful when the groups are small, like we had in class, and the students don't have to worry about being interrupted during their comments. It also helps that students get extra points by bringing others into the conversation, so everyone will participate. The Socratic Seminar is also helpful for gifted students because it encourages them to be analytical and challenges them to think deeply about a specific topic. It also gives them a chance to demonstrate their knowledge in front of their peers. However, the seminar would work best if the students are all interested in the topic and have different points of view on the subject. I think the Socratic Seminar is a great activity to use and I will definitely implement it into my future classroom.
ReplyDeleteAs you said, the Socratic can be successful only if students are interested in the topic, and also, students must have read the materials prior to the discussion, which is likelier to occur if they are interested in the topic in the first place. I would argue that even with two different groups discussing two different topics, like how we had it with one group doing year-round schooling and the other doing elimination of fine arts, everyone should read all of the articles, because the information is still relevant for future teachers, and, in a practical sense, graders should know what the participants are talking about.
DeleteI think it depends on the students you have if they think deeply or not, and also how much research they do. I agree that a goal of a Socratic is to challenge students to think deeper, but as a teacher how would you make sure that your students would think about the topic at a deep level?
DeleteI too will incorporate socratic seminars, but I cannot decide if I like the co piloting strategy or not. When I had done them before, it had been done one of two ways. Either there was an inner or outer circle with students in the outer circle grading and students in the inner circle discussing, or there was one big circle of the whole class (about 18 students) all discussing the same topic. The smaller circle worked well but it cuts down on time in class that students have time to speak. The bigger circle allows everyone to speak out on all topics addressed in more time, but there were sometimes issues that not everyone could get in their two sense before the subject switched. It was also very easy for the quieter students to stay silent. Yet, there were less talking points given and the subject matter discussed was ore restricted, like to one book.
DeleteSocratic Seminars set up an inclusive setting because everyone in the class has a role and everyone is expected to prepare and participate, even if that looks differently for different learners. Socratics differentiate learning because there are several elements to it. The visual part of reading the articles, writing down questions and being a co-pilot writing out ideas for your partner, the audio part of listening and talking, and the kinesthetic part of sitting in a circle with materials in your hands all help the main 3 types of learners.
ReplyDeleteGifted students benefit from Socratics because they are allowed to think deeper and do research and stretch themselves and their classmates by doing extra research and bringing up new ideas and solutions. It allows them to challenge themselves and others ideas in their preparation and on the fly as the Socratic takes place and they have the opportunity to back their arguments up.
Struggling readers could benefit from a Socratic because although reading is required before participation the reading is done at their own pace. The amount of reading is manageable and also beneficial for struggling readers. In a classroom you could teach the students underlining or highlighting and note taking techniques on one of the articles before assigning the others to be read by themselves. The reading isn’t the bulk of this assignment, the critical thinking about the two sides of the issue, the formulating of questions and the participation in the discussion make up the bulk of the assignment.
Shy students could benefit from a Socratic because they come to class with 5 questions already written out. These questions can serve as a sort of script and it is much easier for a shy student to participate in a Socratic then stand up and give a presentation on two sides of an issue. Shy students can do all the preparing beforehand and then when other more outgoing students bring them into the conversation they will have formulated opinions they can respond with.
WIth you and Nathaniel saying it helps gifted students to be able to look up more and do more research isn't it still unfair to them to only be able to get their point total even though they were more knowledgeable then the other students? Or should there also be a limit to how much a student can look up?
DeleteThe point isn't for everyone to get to speak exactly the same number of times, the point is for everyone to think critically about two sides of a topic. There shouldn't be limits. The gifted students can raise the level of thinking of the entire class by posing questions other students may not have thought of. The gifted students usually don't get that much freedom in a typical classroom to challenge their own and other's thinking, they just learn information and get an A. The other students' thinking is getting challenged by the gifted students and I think that's a good thing. I would have loved doing something like this in middle school and high school.
DeleteI completely agree Kasey. Having a socratic seminar with a mixed group of students may raise the standards for the whole class. I don't think that it is unfair at all if some students prepare more than others. It is up to the individual to do their research and to be informed on the topic.
DeleteI agree and I also think that it is very important to pick topic that everyone cares about and would be easy to research. If its something that all the students care about then they are more likely to be more engaged.
DeleteI definitely understand your points, but I wonder if shy students would actually be benefited? I remember doing a debate in one of my classes, which is similar to a Socratic, and the class consisted of eight very strong, outgoing, opinionated, over-achieving girls, and one very shy, quiet boy. Obviously this was a fairly rare situation, but similar situations will happen in all classrooms.
DeleteKatelyn, I think that that one shy boy still benefited from doing the Socratic even if they weren't actively involved because they were there and listening to the conversation. Even though they might not have gotten points for being vocally involved, they could have read the articles, taken notes, and actively listened throughout the entire Socratic.
DeleteI believe the socratic seminar has many good things about it. It can be used at almost all age levels. It is beneficial for the shy student obviously to be able to get their turn to speak up but it also allows the outgoing student to still be able to over power the shy student. With that being said it is a good grading system so that everyone should get an equal amount of time to talk and it is also great to be able to pull all kids into the conversation incase someone is not getting to put their input in all the time. I think it will benefit most learners because everyone has a job while in there. Not one person is just sitting around watching people talk. I think it would be beneficial to someone with an ADD or ADHD problem obviously because it is keeping them on task but I also see it being a problem for children with a sort of Autism because they are not comfortable in a out loud group setting. Another student who would benefit from a socratic is someone who is maybe lacking in confidence in the classroom. The positive reinforcement and comments could help get this student exactly what they need to want to continue to strive for success in the classroom.
ReplyDeleteI agree and i think it would be good to let the more outgoing students know how many points they have so that they can pace themselves on when they want to talk instead of having a response to every comment that is made during the Socratic.
DeleteTyler and Matt, I believe without the point system the shy students would have been outcast because the outgoing students wouldn't allow the shy students speak up. Knowing that you could get marked down for speaking too much really helped with the flow of the conversations without one person dominating the whole 20min.
DeleteI would also agree with you that it is still possible for the more outspoken students to over power the quieter ones, but this is true for almost any type of class discussion. The shyer students will also be less likely to ask questions in lecture or to be more outspoken in group projects. This is way written tests and papers are more beneficial outlets for them to really show the teacher what they have learned.
DeleteI think that socratic seminars promote inclusive classrooms by having every single student in the class circled around and voicing their opinions on whatever the topic may be. All of the students are encouraged to participate and when they feel that they have something to contribute to the conversation they are allowed to join in. Socratics are a great differentiation tool because they allow for the different types of learners' needs to be met. For example, auditory learners are able to hear everyone's comments and immediate feedback is given from the group and also visual learners have text to look through and help prove their point. Socratics are great for those with special needs. For the kids with ADHD, it gives them the opportunity to be involved in the classroom and they don't just have to sit there and be lectured to. It also helps kids with ADD because they are in a discussion with their peers so maybe they will be less likely to daze off if they want to hear what their classmates have to say. The socratic also seems to give a voice to the kids who have Autism or Asperger's which causes them to be more shy. When the class is split into smaller groups and each child is given the opportunity to talk, I feel that these students will feel more comfortable with sharing their views.
ReplyDeleteI don't quite agree with your point about a Socratic helping students that are Autistic, yes it may get them to talk, but one of the symptoms of autism is a lack of empathy and understanding for perspectives outside of their own. With that symptom I feel like a child with autism (depending on the severity) wouldn't be very successful in a Socratic seminar.
DeleteI think a Socratic is a good way to differentiate learning. It helps the shy students speak up. It makes everyone talk, so a shy student can not sit back and let others do all the talking. It is good for all types of learners. The auditory learners are able to listen to the conversation and then give their own input. The visual learners have their notes to look at during the discussion to help them. I think a Socratic is good for ADD and ADHD students also because its very fast paced and makes them have to pay attention but its not like a lecture with one person talking for a very long time. Its works for them as the co-pilots and graders where they are having to grade as they go and provide their own questions and feedback.
ReplyDeleteI like your comment about the ADD kids always having something to do in all roles of the Socratic. Whether they are in the inner circle actively participating, being a co-pilot and chiming in by passing a note, or a grader on the outside paying attention to another individuals comments, each student has a specific responsibility and cannot slack off or get distracted.
DeleteI believe that using the Socratic is a great way to differentiate learning because it gives every student their own opinion of many different topics. the Socratic gives students the opportunity to express their opinion and ask questions to others to see what they think about a certain topic. I feel like the Socratic can differentiate learning because it forces some shy students to step out of their comfort zone and demands them to use their voice, it also differentiates learning because it pretty much eliminates the teacher lecture and the students are able to run the class. three different special needs that I see the Socratic helping is kids with ADD. Being in a Socratic argument demands focuse and probes students to express their opinions on different topics. Also children with high achievement are given the opportunity to work very hard at giving concise evidence for proving their thoughts on these topics. Lastly students social issues are given the opportunity to discuss among their classmates.
ReplyDeleteDo you see any downsides to the Socratic?
DeleteI hadn't thought of how students with social issues could benefit from this type of discussion-- but with students with social issues would it be necessary to keep some topics off limits? What about a discussion about eating disorders and a bulimic class member- would you let this discussion happen or would you avoid the topic? Also, with students with social disorders what happens if a student is very aggressive- would the Socratic be okay to do then?
If a shy student doesn't want to do a Socratic and you force them into doing one would that be beneficial to the student? What is some issues that you might have had yourself while doing a Socratic?
Deletei agree that the shyer students will do well because the other kids will help them and bring them into the conversation so they can also be heard. also i agree that students do lose focus when the teacher is lecturing and when students are in control you get students hitting on topics they may not get if the teacher was talking.
DeleteA Socratic Seminar can be used to create an inclusive classroom in several ways. It can meet the needs of a variety of learners. All students, whether they have some sort of disability or not, can participate in a Socratic Seminar. Discussion, research, and critical thinking are all required for each student. A seminar can also be a way to differentiate a classroom. Students who learn more through listening can benefit by listening to the discussion. For other students, doing the research is the best way to learn about the topic. The discussion would hopefully be a time for all students to broaden their perspective on an issue. As for specific disabilities, a socratic seminar can be accommodating to several different types of students. For shy students, the discussion part of the seminar can bring them into the conversation, or they could contribute as a co-pilot. Students with reading disabilities would benefit from the discussion as well. Also, gifted students would benefit from a Socratic. Being able to take the information and make connections and arguments would give gifted students a more active role in a class that they might have been pretty apathetic towards in the past.
ReplyDeleteI like how you said you can bring shy kids in by letting them be the co-piolets. I did not think of this before until i saw your post.
DeleteI agree with your idea of the shy kids being a co-pilot but I also think that they should step out of their comfort zone and join the inner circle. With the help of the more outgoing students bringing them into conversation, that should help them be more vocal and voice their opinions.
DeleteI agree with you that each student is being able to benefit from a Socratic. Just by looking up a topic allows a student to gain information on the topic they will be discussing. But what type of "gifted students" would be able to benefit from a Socratic and why?
DeleteI believe that a socratic seminar would be great to use in my classroom someday. It would give kids a chance to not be stuck in their seats and be restless all class. They could talk basically as much as they feel. Kids that do not talk much will be brought into the conversation by the other kids. They will work as a team so that everyone will get a least a few chances to speak. It is also a great way for the students to learn. Doing the pre research allows them to learn at their own pace, then during the discussion part, they learn what other people have figured out. There is many positive things about doing socratics in classrooms.
ReplyDeleteLuke, I was wondering what other special learning students you feel would benefit from doing a Socratic seminar? And specifically in your future physics classroom, what topics or how would you integrate a Socratic seminar into your classroom? Possibly a debate on which of Newton's 3 laws is the most important for example.
DeleteWhen you say that it will make students work as a team are you thinking of a Socratic as a form of classroom building? I agree that the pre-research helps meet the needs of different students by letting them work at their own pace.
DeleteYou have stated that you find a Socratic to be very helpful to use in your own future classroom. How were you feeling while doing a Socratic yourself and how did it benefit to your own learning style?
Deletei agree that this will help students from not becoming bored and its a fun way to let them learn. Also its true that when shyer students have positive reinforcement from other students they will have a confidence boost.
DeleteI have to take the devil's advocate here, and say that I think Socratic Seminars would be great in some settings, such as AP classrooms or smaller, close-knit classrooms, but I don't think it would be great for every classroom. I think it would be awesome in an AP class or higher achieving class because each student could apply their specific skills, such as reading, writing, developing arguments, creating counterpoints, asking questions, listening, and discussing. This would build a lot of confidence, and it is a naturally differentiated project because students could work at their own pace, and everyone would be at an equally high-achieving level. The Socratic would be fair and everyone would be on an equal playing field with different opinions and ideas. Gifted students are definitely "special needs" and this would definitely apply to them. In a normal classroom setting, though, I don't believe that Socratic Seminars are inclusive. Students who are mentally disable and have speech problems wouldn't be able to participate, and students even with slight speech impairments such as stutters or lisps often experience those far worse whenever nervous or under pressure. Since everyone would be discussing one of only a couple topics, students with particular interests might not get what they wanted, making it not differentiated. During the conversation, everyone would be on the same playing field, so to speak, and slower students or quieter students would be at a serious disadvantage. There is nothing wrong with being quiet or shy, but many students struggle with things like this and would be scored poorly due to this. Even if they turned in their questions sheets and their articles, they would not be receiving near the points of their more outgoing peers. This is another problem. Some students, such as ADHD students, have a lot of energy and they, as well as class clowns or students who feel the need to be the center of attention, would most likely dominate the conversation. Additionally, with students scoring one another, this could lead to serious problems. If the teacher gives grades based off of peer scores, she could run into problems such as students who don't like one another, students who are best friends and score one another very highly, or students who don't care and don't score at all. If the teacher trumps the peer scores, that would give students the idea that their opinions and scoring don't actually have value. Also, hearing impaired students couldn't participate, and students with hyperactivity issues or attention deficit issues would have a lot of trouble sitting still and paying attention for so long; I even felt myself getting antsy after scoring twice in a row. A Socratic wouldn't be good for students with anger issues, especially if the topic was something they felt passionately about, and I could see it easily getting out of hand. Lastly, students with anxiety or nervous disorders would probably feel very burdened by something like this, regardless of the fact that they had time to prepare previously, since there are so many unexpected outcomes based on everyone's input.
ReplyDeleteI really like your comment that a Socratic seminar is not going to work in every classroom setting. For example, if our entire class did one Socratic seminar it would have turned into a competition of who could get a word in because we would all be striving to get 20 points and it would be impossible in a 20 minute time frame.
DeleteOn another note, I think that students who have speech disabilities still should be able to participate in order to work on their speaking skills but it would just depend on the severity of their disability. Nobody should be excluded from the possibility of participating based on their disability but they should have an alternate assignment if they choose to not participate.
I do think that there could be some issues with some classes. It would definitely depend on your class and the mix of your students as to how well you think it would go. However, I still think students with some of those learning differences would be able to possibly participate. Yes, maybe some accommodations need to be made, but I think there is a possibility of being able to include some of those students you mentioned.
DeleteI definitely think that a Socratic Seminar can create an inclusive setting because it forces interaction between different types of students, both shy and outgoing. If an outgoing student directs a question at another student who is too afraid to ask a question, they might have a really good opinion and just needed the extra push. The minus points for negative comments really encourage students to be respectful because nobody wants to loose points. Doing a Socratic seminar differentiates learning because auditory learners will get a lot of information out of the verbal conversations going on and visual learners will benefit from scanning the articles ahead of time and retaining a lot of the information that way. Students are also able to choose their topic, based on their personal interests, and the co-piolet option allows students to have a safety net if they really need help and the teacher isn’t there to provide guidance. I think that a Socratic seminar is very flexible and can be adapted to meet the needs of any classroom no matter what special needs students are present. Struggling readers will be prepared ahead of time with questions and highlighted articles with notes on them so they aren’t stressing about trying to quickly read over the articles during the discussion to find points to talk about. The Socratic can be modified for ADHD kids where every 5 minutes the students traded spots to let the students move around and take a little break instead of talking for 20 minutes straight. A third special needs student that would benefit from a Socratic seminar would be someone with behavioral issues because this could be an outlet for them to express themselves in the comfort of the classroom and they are protected because other students won’t degrade them in the fear of losing points.
ReplyDeleteI agree with many of your points about the benefits of a Socratic however I think breaking a Socratic up into five minute increments would decrease the usefulness of the discussion; the movement would be good for ADHD but what about students that will lose their train of thought? What happens if the timer goes off in the middle of a good discussion? I could see a handful of problems arising from that accommodation.
DeleteI agree that the points system helps students to think about what they're going to say. Being able to have some say in the topic is also helpful, because if you're interested in the topic, you're more likely to be engaged in the discussion.
DeleteSocratic seminar are really useful for getting students to work with other classmates they wouldn't typically work with this could be very beneficial to students that are shy; however, I don't think that it is fully helpful to them-- as a naturally shy person it was very stressful for me to do the seminar so if someone is more shy than I am this could cause some very high anxiety which is not something that you want to do to any student.
ReplyDeleteThe Socratic seminar is also done in a different format then the typical classroom setting which could ADD/ADHD students. For one, the set-up of having an inner and outer ring is very useful. Also by doing these discussions have many different people speaking so no one is stuck listening to a teacher until they lose focus.
The Socratic seminar would also be very useful to auditory learners these learners could very easily be using their listening skills and gaining more from this seminar than many others.
Danielle, I completely agree with you on the shy part. I am the same way when it comes to situations like a Socratic. I also like your point how it can help out a shy person in coming out of their shell or comfort zone but how sometimes it isn't always beneficial to them
DeleteSocratic Seminar are very useful to use within the classroom. It is something different to do within the classroom. It allows students to express a different type of learning style. I am a naturally shy person when it comes to group discussions at times and I was very nervous about doing a Socratic. Once I got into the Socratic I felt less stressed out about it. I might have felt at times a bit nervous still, but others around me noticed and tried to help me out. It allowed me to understand what my peers were thinking about the topic we were discussing.
ReplyDeleteSocratic Seminars can help out both ADD and ADHD students. Having the different people within the Socratic with different jobs allows them to not lose their focus as easily. They will be able to experience each of the jobs that needs to be done within a Socratic. Also Auditory learners would be able to benefit from a Socratic. They will be able to listen to what everyone is saying and absorb that into their learning. While doing that they will also gain the knowledge they need for the material/information they are learning.
I agree that Socratic Seminars can help students who have either ADD or ADHD if the topic is a good topic. If the topic is not interesting to these students than I think that it will be easy for them to lose focus during the Socratic. I think that is why you should strongly consider their suggestions in particularly when deciding the topic.
DeleteI really do think that Socratics can help really help students with different learning styles. For the shyer kids, they were almost forced to participate by other students asking them direct questions, and wanting their input. It will help them gain confidence in group projects and in group discussions. Another type of learner it can help with is ADD and ADHD when they are constantly giving their input or talking about something they are interested in will help hold onto their attention. The type of learning style that this will really help is auditory learners, this is based on discussion and requires them listen and they will most likely excel in the arguments and also become a stronger listener.
ReplyDeleteDoing my first Socratic the other day really showed me that it’s an awesome way to differentiate learning in the classroom. It helps both talkative students and shy students. We spoke in class the other day about how its forces the sky students speak up. Some shy students are still very smart but never voice their opinion but doing a Socratic forces them to speak if they want to get a good grade. It helps outgoing students really clarify how they feel about a certain topic while being able to help out other class mates like the shy student interact with the group in the discussion. I think ADD/ADHD, Visual and Auditory learners will be the ones to benefit from a Socratic because ADD/ADHD students are required to know what is going on in the conversation to make a comment. If there was no grading or co-piloting I think they would struggle but with having those two really keeps them responsible to help out their teammate and how to grade the person they’re grading. Visual learners will be benefit with the articles and notes they took beforehand to help them recall on during the discussion. Auditory learners will be able to hear everyone else’s opinion and give out great knowledge on what they researched.
ReplyDeleteThe talkative students have to learn to control their thought to ensure that everyone gets the opportunity to talk. I think this is an important skill for more outgoing kids to practice so they understand that shy kids have a voice too.
DeleteThe socratic helped struggling readers because they were able to do the reading on their own time instead of trying to understand during class and then being lost in what the rest of the students are saying. The ADD and ADHD students also benefitted because they were able to move around and not stay on one topic the whole time. Lastly, the shy students who rarely speak up in class were able to have a voice. Also, to make them more comfortable they were able to have their points pre written. I think students also feel more comfortable in general speaking during a socratic because their ideas are not being compared to the teacher's interpretation. Everyone feels a little more equal in terms of say and stance. This socratic offered a difference from the every day teaching styles as well, which made it more interesting and, therefore, more engaging. I will most certainly remember more from the socratics than I will from a lecture.
ReplyDeleteThis would be a great activity for ADHD and ADD kids because there are so many different ideas being thrown out there to discuss. As long as they weren't shy, they may be great at the activity.
DeleteSocratic seminars foster an inclusive setting because they allow all students to voice their opinion without being judged or shot down. Socratics are about constructive responses and building off everyone's ideas, so no one should feel like their opinion or statement doesn't matter. Socratic seminars are also very good for differentiating learning. They create an environment that is totally different from your everyday classroom, so students are much more interested and involved in the discussion. Socratic seminars are good for shy students because they create a safe environment for students to open up in. It creates a smaller setting, so students have more opportunities to speak up and express themselves. They are also good for ADD learners because the setting of a Socratic is different. They get to move around and take breaks frequently, while still learning the material and staying focused. I also think Socratics are good for auditory learners because everything is being said aloud and it is more of a conversation than a lecture. This doesn't mean it takes away from visual learners because everyone has documents to look at and guide them along in the discussion. Overall, Socratic seminars are a good way to change things up in your classroom while still learning the material effectively.
ReplyDeleteI felt as though our socratics did not build too much and that they were more just short conversations. It is great to build off and respond with textual evidence when participating in a socratic and I think that is what makes it an educational discussion rather than just a normal conversation.
DeleteSocratic Seminars - besides being kinda fun - can help students who don't usually get involved to voice their opinions. For instance, being a shy student in high school, I felt like I could talk in front of my class in a neutral setting during a socratic. Students who are more shy (like I was) don't feel like they're instantly being put on the spot or having to fight to get words in. Students who have trouble yelling out comments instead of raising their hand or waiting their turn during class also have the opportunity to voice their opinions. ADD or ADHD students are allowed to have breaks and not have to stay so focused on one topic, as socratics often move from one topic to another easily. I think it accomodates for all types of learning styles as well, with their being opportunities to read material, hear it, and discuss it. It just makes it easier for all students to speak up during a socratic. Another good part of being in a socratic seminar is the student-led aspect. It's an opportunity to learn from peers while maybe hearing from perspectives other than your own.
ReplyDeleteI was that kid that did not want to talk in class when I wasn't comfortable. I loved socratic seminars because they make you a little more comfortable being a smaller group. I think having the text in front of you helps you support your thoughts and ideas.
DeleteSocratic seminars give everyone an opportunity to talk. Breaking off into smaller groups gives more opportunity for people to participate more comfortably. Even if the kids do not talk out loud, they still have to get the materials prepared before the socratic and have to listen to what their peers have to say. I think that it differentiates learning because you are not just reading the information. You have to take it to another level and back up your opinion. Again, with the listening and the tag teaming also accommodates for some students. This will also help visual learners because they need to find the most important points in their article. The audio learners benefit from the conversation. Kinesthetic learners benefit from the copiloting because they physically have to write ideas down. Socratics can be difficult for shy kids, or even the ones who do not want to interrupt or upset other peoples’ thoughts.
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